The Conquerors Expansion has celebrated its 10th birthday this year. And the game is still alive and kicking but… can we go further? The answer is yes, with a new expansion pack for our beloved Age of Empires II we can brace the game for the next decade. It takes time and dedication, but it might change the future of AoC for good, for the better and forever!


5 New Civilizations

Play with the Italians and set sail from Venice, lead the mighty Black Army over the Hungarian plains or wage war on the Indian subcontinent.

28 New Technologies

28 new technologies, including Greek Fire, Magyar Pillaging and the Great Wall of China!

5 New Units

The Genoese Crossbowman to protect the Italian states. A new siege unit and exciting new cavalry, infantry and archery for the other new civs.

New Mechanics

Play on higher resolutions, communicate easier with your teammates and enjoy a game that’s fully compatible with Windows 7

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Discussion topic: http://www.aoczone.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=68879

A new Age has dawn! Stay tuned for more!

  • VoDo

    When will be age of empires 2 forgotten empires to download ? Do you know the exact date ? I´m big fan in this game. I´m playing it with my friends every weekend, because it’s still the best strategy. I think this mod is briliant. So if you can upload it somewhere ;)

  • Unni3

    I think giving the siege engineers tec to the Chinese or Persians would be better because the vikings didn’t have any siege craft in the times they fought against their enemies(give the siege engineers technology of the vikings to any civs wich really needs the siege engineers). Cause the vikings are kind of powerful already without the siege.Since the civs I mentioned above will get good use of it(anyway,in the midieval times,they were experts in using siege).Even if the Persians don’t get it, give them to the Chinese.

  • Unni3

    Your’e right.Thanks.Anyway,do all the civilisations get the siege tower?

  • Unni3

    I think the Celts are unbalanced.And I think they should have the last black smith upgrade for the cavalry as well,since currently they can use only infantry&siege.If we give them plate barding armor, they could use cavalry as well.

    • LukeMam

      Ummm NO. Give Celts the plate armor, and they’ll be like the Teutons with significantly better siege and better UU. In other words, very unbalanced, in another direction :).

      I personally think Celts are a bit too powerful in closed maps with their uber-siege. For instance, there’s no way you could counter Celt’s massed heavy scorpions with melee units, because with 50% more HP and 20% faster firing, they eat everything melee. You have to use bombard cannons, trebuchets, or siege onagers. Add woad raiders into the mix and you have a combo that’s almost impossible to counter.

  • Livebearer

    i have installed the user patch 1.1 from xOmicron and i saw that you included that extension in this expansion as well…
    so i thought i should write some suggestions that are (imo) important for more fun when playing…

    1. if you play with 400 – 1000 population (which you can in user patch 1.1) it is bothersome that the player is limited to only select 40 units…
    imo it should be doubled to at least 80 (100 is maybe better?) so its easier to send your units to fight…

    2.if you play with 400 -1000 population you have to build 200 houses to reach your max pop limit…
    it would help so much if a house increase the max. population by +10 or +20 instead of +5…
    i know you included this by the Incas but you could just make the Inca houses +5 or +10 more then the other civilizations right?

    3.please include the option to type the amount of resources you want to sell or buy in market!
    it would make selling and buying resources much easier you know…
    its so time consuming to sell resources click by click…

    hope you like these suggestions!
    these are the most important things i miss when i play the user patch 1.1 and if you included the patch to this expansion you should consider the points i mentioned…
    right now playing with 1000 pop makes not as much fun as it can make if you include the points above… ^^

  • demon10

    its the best! release soon!

  • PajtinPillej

    Hi! I was the one writing about the Mali Empire or as id like to call it the Mandingian Empire.
    I’ve read more on Wiki now and discovered more about their Battle style.
    Appearently they had an elite force called “ton-ta-jon-ta-ni-woro”. Each member is called Ton-tigi ( “quiver-master” ).
    So that heavy armored archer unit at the Castle could be named “Ton-Tigi”.
    As for the light armored, fast, spear throwning units at the Archery the fitting name would be “Farari” ( “Brave” ) wich also was high ranged warriors.
    The only thing is that they were cavalry archers. But cool with cavalry Javelin throwers haha? It might be to much… Id prefer Ground units, javelin throwers, but fast like the Eagle Warrior. Since Mongols already have a unique cavalry archer unit.

    Interesting side facts.
    “Contemporary historians present during the height and decline of the Mali Empire consistently record its army at 100,000 with 10,000 of that number being made up of cavalry. With the help of the river clans, this army could be deployed throughout the realm on short notice.”
    “It ( The Malian Empire ) spanned the modern-day countries of Senegal, southern Mauritania, Mali, northern Burkina Faso, western Niger, the Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, the Ivory Coast and northern Ghana. By 1350, the empire covered approximately 439,400 square miles (1,138,000 km2). The empire also reached its highest population during the Laye period ruling over 400 cities.”
    “During this period only the Mongol Empire was larger.” // According to Wiki.
    THis would be the perfect set for a campaign mode!!!
    Appearently only 2 of these Elite force members where Extra good warriors around the 1300-1400ac. Farim-Soura and Sankar-Zouma. They were said to have “wide ranging powers”. Now i mighty be wrong and misunderstood it all but isn’t it fit to have a Hero unit with “English Bowmen range”, slow, “medium hero hp”, and good attack power when taking over the western Africa with the Mandingian Empire on campaign mode?

    Come on, say that this idea about the civ The Mandingian Empire aint good and you’d lie. ;P
    Once again.. Comment on this and give your own ideas and thoughts about this civ!

  • yohoos

    You should include a naval ram, with similar properties to a siege ram. This unit should counter gally line and be weak against fireships. It makes sense since the naval ram would have to get close enough for the fireship to be in range for it anyway. The naval ram should have ridiculous pierce armor (200 for example) and base attack of (1-5). Towers and castles have a bonus against ships (I think) so it doesn’t matter how much pierce armor these guys have it would still lose to those buildings. However, it allows there to be a hard counter to gallys. This unit should be available only in the imperial age since fireships can still counter gallys in the castle age for the most part. The naval should also include some building attack bonus just for realism too so it can take down docks along with the gallys. It should also have an attack bonus against the fireships but not enough for it to be considered effective.

    • Unni3

      I agree with the fire ship problem, but I think it would be better to give a unique ship to every civs,like the Koreans&Vikings. So that every civs could build their own ships and counter the galleons&fire ships:).

  • alice

    +1 to this option: What about an option to hide the civ you pick in the room?

  • StW

    Hi Cysion,
    in my opinion your team has already done enough to change the game mechanics and make it more interesting, what you really shouldn’t forget now is to fix the over 10 year old user interface.

    What’s especially annoying to me and can be read in game reviews too is the sounds. For the love of god, make it possible to turn the barracks and all the other annoying building sounds off, they serve no purpose as you hear them when you already clicked on a building. These sounds are a noob single player relic. Also, the confirmation sounds of military units is basically distracting in a battle. I am personally fine with the worker sounds because they are individual to each civic, but their usufulness is debatable.

    Would be important to fix this (as in other serious multiplayer games), so that people can concentrate on the really useful sounds (attack warnings etc.).

    • CarolKarine

      I can tell you that while it is possible to remove these sounds, creating an option that turns them off at will is difficult – at best. Remember, this mod is being made without the source code, and these sounds are hardcoded – if I remember right. of course, you can always turn them off on your copy of the game by replacing the sounds with snippets of recorded silence.

      CarolKarine – AoFE Campaign Designer

  • raditzz

    I think that u should make more things for some civs as…. i dont know why not something like…. domestic wolfs with only one civ??? example Italians…. with his monks or some special unit… it could be great… more interesting pls for the rest of civs… and please… launch it soon!!! all here out are desperate for to play it!!!! pls hurry up!!!! we’re waitinf for it =)… greetings!!!!

  • StevenW

    Hey Cysion,

    I appreciate your team’s work on Forgotten Empires very much and it’s looking very promising to me.

    Being a higher league Starcraft II player, there is one issue that has already been brought up by someone and I want to emphasize it again. If you want to get a good macro on Starcraft, you have to learn to exactly produce one unit at most of your buildings at any given time, and ordering the next unit at the exact moment that the previous one finishes. Queuing up units is a complete no-no. Therefore, I find the extensive queues on single buildings in AoC rather nonsensical, to say the least. And there is no real “multiple building selection” in the game thus far. What’s the point of selecting 5 barracks, hitting the S button five times and all units are queued in one building? Why can I even select 5 barracks at once, if it doesn’t help me at all because all commands go to only 1 building? They should be distributed between all the selected buildings.

    This should really be fixed because this “half-done” implementation of MBS (multiple building selection) from 14 years ago is more than lacking by today’s standards.

    Regards, Steven W.

    • _EA_TeuTonic

      Hi all

      The Macro is in AoC comparable to SCII. When you want to be good you have to learn only to produce one unit at the time and not the queue.
      When you grush you have 1 tc and 3-5 docks to manage and when you queue in one dock you can’t really use another one.

      When you are good you only begin with queueing because in aoc you can coin the lategamenstantly have about 190 pop. In SCII you can’t queue when you are maxed out.

      I agree with you about the MBS. The MBS allowes new players to use the macro basics they have learned. Because the system age uses is more complex to use at it’s best. You would have a better overview in the game about the buildings which are producing units and you can produce better. Currently you have to look up every single building of the type.

  • Nola

    Hey Cysion update the facebook page man!

  • Nicolas

    Tambien podrian agregar nuevas unidades como lobo domesticado y un tipo de monje que pueda lanzar pestes cosas asi y un nuevo barco tipo egipcio con ojos pintados un nuevo tipo de guerrilero que pueda lanzar las jabalinas mas lejos

  • Nicolas

    Podrian agregar a Chile por su guerra contra españoles de 400 años ya que podria tener los edificios tipo:nuevo mundo

  • Rock_PT

    Yeah it looks awesome.
    Is there any chance that there will be an imperial upgrade for petards.
    They seem useless at that age :S

    • Rock_PT

      BTW are there any free aplications for beta testing?

  • lordlebu

    Hi, im from india and good with hindu history, cant wait to see your india pack ;D

  • wialre

    Maybe you could make it possible to build bridges?

  • Alex

    Congratulations for this expansion. It makes the game more interesting to play.

    I have a question for you..any chance to add Romanian nation in this game? I’m from Romania, and this game is still widely spread, a lot of people play it very often.
    There are some unique aspects that can make the Romanian nation quite interesting to be added in this expansion. I would be more then honored to help you with any kind of historical information.

    Thanks for this new expansion…it brings back the game of my childhood.

    Regards form Romania

  • mcload64

    Hello. I will like to congratulations for you. I have a question, Age2 is good game. When can we buy age2-forgotten empire?

    Thanks a lot.

    • http://www.cysion.be Cysion

      It will be free for download later this year :)

      • david

        WHERE and WHEN will it be able for download? do you need to have age of empires 2 to download the forgotten empires expansion for it to work?

        • Kevin

          YES and THEY DON”T KNOW when its finished. They are working hard. YOu need AOE for it to work.

          • Nappa

            Actually it’s going to be released in December 2012. =)

      • demon10


  • Rock_PT

    Has anyone checked this? http://www.xomicron.com/software/
    There are a lot of potencial benefits for the expansion in here

    • http://aok.heavengames.com Basse

      The UserPatch is already implemented to FE I think :)

  • Firewingz

    Is there already an date for when i might come out fully?

    • Rock_PT

      I think it comes out in December

      • demon10

        it does.

  • Elijen

    Hi! I’m really looking forward to this expansion, keep up the good work!
    I have a few questions for you.
    1. Is it possible to make maps larger than GIANT?
    2. Is it possible to increase the maximum amount of players from 8 to… 10 or 12 maybe? and thus adding more player colors?
    3. How many civilizations can you add? I was delighted to see the Incas and the Indians among the new ones. Now I wonder if there is a possibility to see Khmers (thinking about Angkor Wat), the Thai or why not some of the West african medieval empires? Such as Mali, Congos or Ghanas. Just to get the world covered lol xD
    4. Will there be more expansions in the future?

    • Daniel Pereira

      1) If you mean creating maps larger than giant in scenario editor, I don’t think so…
      2) I think no.
      3) I can ensure that its possible to add 10+ civs
      4) It depends of the motivations of our modders…

  • _MaxiV_

    Has anyone heard of Empire Earth? Great game, something like an expansion. I suggest you take a look.

    One of the many things that could be “stolen” are heroes (in EE, there were the warrior, great attack and improved the defenses of the allies nearby, and the strategist, that could heal and lower enemy defences).

    That’s something I just thought about.

    • _MaxiV_

      Other thing (that has been mentioned, I think) are siege towers. How did they work in EE? Slow and resistant, they had enough space for 5, 10 guys and, when clicking an enemy wall next to the tower, the monkeys were dropped on the other side of the wall. Something like this:

      L i
      Li …..

      (L = Siege Tower, i = wall, …. = soldiers)

  • Pingback: “Age of Empires II” Fan Expansion Being Made | AgedGamer()

  • http://aoe2mac.net/ Thomas

    Question about naval battles, since you mentioned that one unit armies will not be enough now. How will the new and improved fireships be balanced out with galleons? What is to stop a player from making only fireships, similar to how they only make galleys, and how will civilizations without them compare?
    Is the beta team discussing this?

    • http://aoe2mac.net/ Thomas

      Thinking about it, you could alter costs of different ships; make new ships; give galleys a special purpose in naval battles that fireships are useless at (maybe a high bonus vs demolition ships and other galleys? just throwing that out there. as it stands, i doubt the demo ship will be killed before reaching the fires)

      • _MaxiV_

        Maybe rock, scissors, paper? A beats B, B beats C, C beats A. Then just balance.

  • Rock_PT

    I have never seen anyone using petards siriously in any game, I think that they could be cheaper or stronger in order to make them viable to use in a game. I was thinking maybe an imperial upgrade…

    • barbarossa89

      They have an imperial upgrade: siege engineers.

      Petards are used seriously in arena, where a castle dropper often makes a petard to blast in through the walls fast. Also, on black forest, a couple layers of wall can be destroyed fast with petards, where rams would be seen and countered with onagers or more walls behind.

      Petards aren’t necessarily used much on Arabia, but any map with serious walls will see petards used.

  • nickrules

    Are u taking suggestions? If so plz add this to expantion:

    Wonders less -60 stone (except in DM and RTM games)
    Wonders produce a stronger uneque unit
    Bombard towers +10 gold
    Bombard towers -5 attack (they’re wayyyyyyy too strong in my opinion)
    villagers +5 HP
    New Uneque units
    Castles auto Murder Holes (Damn always forget to research)
    Watch Towers +5 attack
    New Ship, The Battleship (50 attack 1 armor/10 pierce armor)
    Each Civ gets it’s own building (ex. Italy Colosseum)
    New Civ (if you’ve haven’t already) Romans
    New researches Arrowheads (archers, crossbowmen, arbalests, longbowmen etc. +4 attack), Smithy (Men-at-arms, Longswordsmen, etc. +4 attack)
    New buildings: Signal tower (Like Outpost but more line of site)
    New Units: Bombard Men made in siege workshop(Like Petards but +50 attack weaker than Sabutours), Decoy Villager made in castle (Villager but cant build but has better armor/pierce armor and attack)
    Palidans -5 attack
    Cavaliers research -10 gold
    Huns Onagers can be researched (experienced today and not pretty)

    Thats pretty much it!

    • boXXa

      I think you mean castles not wonders

      • nickrules

        no i mean wonders. it would make a better purpose of them. rather than them only having a use in standard games.

    • nickrules

      Oh and P.S. (sry for double comment) BattleShip is same as Bombard ship but only Spain, Turks, and navy civs, can buy. Cost: 400 Wood 20 Stone and 200 Gold. Upgrade to Elite BattleShip Research cost: 1500 Wood 1000 Gold. +30 Attack +2armor/+2 pierce armor. oh and typo 4 Huns can research. I meant CANT research.

    • https://www.facebook.com/kunalkrishna85 tHe_VaGaBonD

      >>Wonders produce a stronger uneque unit.
      ~Sounds gr8

      • https://www.facebook.com/kunalkrishna85 tHe_VaGaBonD

        >>New buildings: Signal tower (Like Outpost but more LoS)
        ~ i ud like to keep its LOs same but in addition it can create alarming sound when it sees enemy in its LoS

  • jc66266

    This is my first post on aocbox, I just signed up.
    I dislike how Bombard Towers – or anything bombard for that matter, attack in pierce damage. They were overpowered, being able to take out rams easilly. But I still think they shouldn’t attack in pierce damage. Maybe there could be a new unit that is quite high armored against Bombard towers? Or a technology that makes it easier to raze a BB tower. Maybe Bombards could have there own attack damage type, and units get a new type of armor. The current armor layout is “2/5″. Meaning armor against pierce and armour against melee. Maybe some units could have “2/5/10″ meaning they would have the normal armors, and a 10 armor against bombards.

    Espicially in a CBA type of match, where you might build lots of stables, barracks, archery range or siege workshop… Its annoying having to click each and every building, holding shift and pressing the hotkey for a unit 3 times. It would be a lot easier to be able to just select multiple amounts of buildings and be able to create a unit in everyone of them, or in as many as you can afford. i.e I select 5 stables and press “n” (the knight/cav/pally hotkey). It would then create 1 knight in every stable I selected. If I could only afford 8 units, and held shift and pressed “n” twice, on two stables, then it would create 5 in one, and 3 in the other. This is allowed in aoe III, but it would be awesome if you could add it to Aoe II Forgotten Empires. << By the way, what an awesome name, Forgotten Empires.

    Maybe you could be able to set a gathering point before a building is created? That would mean in a CBA type match, I wouldn't have to set the gathering point after each one is created / set it over and over as more are built, I could just set the point after I sent my villagers to create them all. This wouldn't only be helpful in CBA matches, but in all round convinience on in any match.

    Maybe you could give the Trade Workshop something to do, and make it a building villagers can create? Maybe you could give some unique to civilization upgrades, or do stuff to do with diplomacy with other players. The Trade Workshop suits many scenarios, including Risk, but I think it would much deserve something to do.

    You said you were going to "revamp" the naval world in Aoe II FE. In Aoc we can only build docks on water. Maybe you could allow us to create more shore buildings? Like a harbour of some sort, which gives us the "naval equivelant" of a Blacksmith. Or a dock that allows villagers to walk on and get closer to fish, but cannot be used as a bridge.
    }===== {
    } {

    }}{{ are the shores.
    = is the dock that villagers can fish off.

    I'm really good at using triggers, and was wondering… Are you going to be adding more Conditions / Effects / allowing us to type in negatives into quantity boxes, or making triggers easier to use? I think it woulf be awesome if you could.
    I only just found out that you are making AoE II Fallen Empires.

    Will we get better AI's? Will the computers become smarter, and will they be able to play any of the simple scenarios? It's probably impossible… But can you make them understand the triggers… And what they do. So if you make a trigger: If king is on flag. Spawn longbowmen. But the king dosn't start on the flag, could you make the computer understand that they have to move the king on the flag? (without tasking triggers). Computers can't play blank scenarios where there is no resource and the resource is auto triggered. Maybe you could make them be able to play that sort of match?

    You said you were going to make a High Res for Fallen Empires… Will it be like Boekbarts High res hack, or inbuilt to the game? I havn't actually been able to get the high resolution working… And hope it's a lot more simple then Boekbarts high res hack.

    I came here because I was doing random stuff on youtube, and decided to watch a video, that featured cysion (Online Commentary by Mr Danish).

    If possible could you give us a rough idea on when the expansion will be finished? I'm so anxious to play it =3 Good luck to Cysion and the Beta Team with there project :)

    • Age2player

      He already has given us a “rough” idea: sometime (probably late) in 2012

      • jc66266

        Thanks for that, I wasn’t sure. Late 2012 as in August or further? Well, I guess… I’ll be waiting ;) With the naval stuff I was writing, I was meant to do this:
        }=== {
        } {

        }}{{ are the shores.
        = is the dock that villagers can fish off.

  • Rock PT

    Hey cysion, can you tell us more or less how long it will take approximately to end the expansion?


    PS: Continue with the good work it looks awsome so far ;)

  • Randes

    Wow, this looks really good, Cysion!
    I’ve got a question: will the expansion be capable for the Collectors Edition?
    Because I have the Collectors Edition and the scenario’s I download don’t work…

    • Andy01

      Strange about your scenario problem. I got the collector’s edition to but i don’t have trouble with getting scenarios I download to work.

  • Emilord

    Nice job guys,
    Just a little suggestion here:
    Why don’t you include a unique building for every civilization?
    Every civilization would have its unique building that could be built only a single time, just like a wonder. And every one of these unique buildings could have a special function. such as:
    reserching technologies, creating units, and other stuff like that.

    • http://aoe2mac.net/ Thomas

      I believe that could just be added to the wonder itself. there are several ideas out there, i believe. got milk?

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/7MrMagician7?feature=mhee Steel_e

    I have an idea: give tarkans range. It would be a) cool/creative b) give the something other than a building bonus over pallies. 1-3 range would be sufficent and I think its a good idea. :) Although you’ll probably have to change something else to make them balanced. After all, I already saw a “torch” projectile on the a0kh blacksmith. :D

  • noobly

    Hi, Cysion.
    Currently, I don’t play AoC but the Expansion seems good to me.
    I have just logged on and this is my first comment. I read this site before but I didn’t resister.
    I will write my ideas about the balance.

    -population support increases +5 or +10 per advance.
    for example, if you have 1 tc and 4 houses and have advanced to the Feudal Age, your population cap will rise from 25 to 30 or 35. In other words, when you reach the next age, you get a “free house”. This affects all civs except huns.

    -Longbowmen production 10% faster

    -Frankish knights and light cavalry +20% HP
    Light cavalry HP will be 72.

    -Siege Onagers Attack strength 75 -> 70?
    I think they are too strong especially Celts and Koreans.

    -Korean War Wagons cost -5 wood.

    -Hunnic Tarkans move +5% faster

    -Viking team bonus -25% -> -20%

    -Elite Mangudais attack delay 0 to 4.

    -Mongol unique technology +50% -> +35%.

    -Spanish team bonus +33% -> +25%

    -Change the costs of Frankish and Viking unique technologies
    too expensive for the effects?

    -Bombard towers -10% HP

    As some people say, bloodlines are overpowered but I have no idea what would be better.

    • http://www.cysion.be Cysion

      Quite some of the changes you suggested are currently being discussed by the pro beta team ;)

    • https://www.facebook.com/kunalkrishna85 tHe_VaGaBonD

      i agree with : Longbowmen production 10% faster

  • barbarossa89

    I have a request for the expansion: could fire ships have ship armor? That would allow them to actually be used against galleys. As it is, the galley attack bonus against ships pretty much destroys fire ships in most situations. But if they did only two or three damage a hit, then people might actually start using demolition ships to kill fire ships instead of just massing the galleys.

    • http://www.cysion.be Cysion

      Naval battle will be totally revamped. We’re currently testing with the pro team (mostly 2K guys) to make sure everything is spicier than ever. ;) (and ofcourse, single unit armies won’t win anymore)

  • http://www.cysion.be Cysion

    Just saying: I read all the ideas here, but I’m not really gonna answer them in detail. Some very interesting points, but I’m focussing right now on testing and implementing. Not on defending my choices/work-in-progress online :)

    • GntlMn

      If I were you, i would edit this article/page and insert the link of the aoczone forum topic, just to choose an “official” and only place to discuss. Here are a lot of doubles… (And this isn’t a forum topic, not really comfy to read and post in a “comment section ocean”.) OR we should start a topic here, @AoCBox forum.

  • http://aoe2mac.net/ Thomas

    i just figured out what a persistent world is! damn that sounds cool. hope it works.

  • king

    hey cysion, i just wish you would make this a patch and not an expansion pack :(

    I feel like that a pack would mean that it would be unplayable on mac? Just correct me if I am wrong, and is there anyway we could make it playable on mac?

    • BlanketPI

      Either way, being playable on a Macintosh it would not be. (Unless you mean a mod pack, but that seems silly for a large-scale project like this.)

      I think you will have to use Windows if you want to play it…. Sorry! (Changing one executable file is enough. Changing two, in different programming languages would be a lot worse, especially since you need the Macintosh version and a Macintosh computer, anyway.)

    • nick45679

      Just get VMware and install windows on it. It always works

      • http://aoe2mac.net/ Thomas

        Yeah, and now that Lion has screwed over Rosetta, it’d be a waste of time to port this anyway.

  • http://aoe2mac.net/ Thomas

    i think the huns would do nicely with tarkans doing damage to all nearby buildings when they attack one. it’d fix the problem of tarkans having nothing to offer vs paladins.

  • Age2player

    I wonder if one of the new civs will have more expensive villagers, like RoR’s Palmyrans, which are both grossly underrated and one of my personal favorites (I still play RoR from time to time).

  • Age2player

    I have a few suggestions:

    Mayans: The Mayans would need at least one more alternative for fighting Huskarls, currently all they have is Eagle Warriors and Heavy Scorpions, along with the occasional Monk.
    Maybe you could change their siege lineup, adding Siege Onagers would probably help, even without Siege Engineers. Or would that be going too far?

    Byzantines: If Bloodlines gets a reduced effect (like, say, only a boost of 10 HPs for knights), then Byzantines should get it. Give their cavalry full defensive capabilities, but keep their Blast Furnace lack. But maybe that would make their Cataphracts overpowered.

    Franks: Instead of modifying their Paladins, I’d suggest giving them Hussars, that would help a lot and make them fare somewhat better in trash wars.

    Vikings: The Vikings would need something to raise their competitiveness a bit in Imperial. I’d say something like better armor, but +3, not +2 like LukeMam said.

    Chinese: I would’ve given the Chinese Bombard Cannons, as that would help them a lot and also help for historical accuracy. They used them against the Mongols, at least I think so.

    Remember, these are only suggestions.

    PS. As you can probably see, these are five civs of each building style. They’re my favorite civs of each tileset.

    • BlanketPI

      I apologize if I come off as harsh or commanding.

      I think you are, accidentally playing favorites, here. You might not know it, but I think you want your civilizations to be better than they should be….

      Mayans: They are a very polar civilization, and loosing badly to the Goths and maybe a few others is their cost. (Think about how cheap their archers are! Think about how long they will have gold and stone. They do not need Lumber Camps as often because they go through trees more slowly and on Islands or Team Islands, they last longer. They start off with a Villager already made!)
      Siege Onagers have always been given only to civilizations with Siege Engineers and 1/3 of the total civilizations. Not to mention, it would not help much, anyway, when you can just make 2 Onagers and kill multiple Huskarls each volley that way. (That upgrade is pricey, too!) Hey, you mentioned 3 units, so they do have ways of getting through, regardless.

      Byzantines: They have every unit, except for the Siege Onager and Heavy Scorpion. Their price lies in the lacking of key technologies, namely Blast Furnace, Siege Engineers and now, Bloodlines. I do not think they should get it, just because they have so much going for them. Sure, they lack in economy, despite having a “perfect” one, but that is something a few other civilizations have, too. (Mongols, Goths…)

      Franks: They, too, are a rather polar civilization. They have a horrible Archery Range, only beating the Celts because they get Hand Cannoneer. They have an average Barracks, (not a good thing!) due to missing the useful Squires technology, and they used to lack Halberdier, too. They miss Bloodlines and Hussar in the Stable, and they lack the key Monastic technologies: Atonement and thus, Redemption. So what do they have? Superior knights, cheap Castles, strong siege and the Throwing Axeman. That is it. However, with Bloodlines giving +20 HP, their knights are barely above the rest, with the Knight being average. I will go on to why I think Bloodlines should be +10 across the board, at the end of this post. However, I think that they were meant to be a bit like less extreme Turks, being very powerful before the gold runs out and being bad once it does.

      Vikings: They, too are a polar civilization. They were never meant to be particularly strong on land, with their poor cavalry, not even having Husbandry! They also loose out on the seas in the late Imperial Age brawls, with their Galleons being produced 20/13 slower than those with Shipwright. Their strength was always intended to be in the earlier part of the game, where they have a superior boom and cheaper Docks and boats. The infantry bonus is mostly to make them stand somewhat of a chance in later Imperial Age battles. That being said, Berserkgang is the most expensive unique technology, gold-wise. Perhaps raising the Berserk’s defense by 1 or 2, might be good, for this normally unresearched technology.

      Chinese: Historical accuracy should never take precedence over gameplay balance. The Chinese are not absolute power-houses at any moment of the game, yet they are still strong. They mostly rely on using the technology bonus to adapt to their opponent’s strategy and countering them. Moreover, Bombard Towers are very, very useful in holding ground. I do not think they need another unit, but I suppose I am easily in the wrong, here….

      Bloodlines: You know in the Feudal Age, how there is a unit triangle? Cavalry beats archery; archery beats infantry; infantry beats cavalry. Well Men-at-Arms can beat Scout Cavalry without Bloodlines, but once Scout Cavalry get Bloodlines, then they are superior to the Men-at-Arms, solidifying their poor performance in the Feudal Age. It does not stop there, though. There are 7 civilizations with the Stable, but without Bloodlines. That means that in the Castle Age, these civilizations suffer terribly for their worse Knights, which are worse by 20%! Frankish Knights are no better than Hunnic ones, nor Chinese ones, nor Spanish ones, et cetera. Even Frankish Paladins only survive an extra 12 damage, which makes them barely superior to other Paladins. (To be fair, +10 HP would not change how many strikes they can take in comparison to +20, but that is only Paladin, Heavy Camel or Halberdier versus Paladin.)

      Saracen Knights are strictly better than Korean Cavaliers. Light Cavalry with Bloodlines beat Hussars without Bloodlines. Teutonic Scout Cavalry have more HP than Frankish, Briton and Viking Light Cavalry. Cavalry Archers have a 40% increase in HP! That is a lot for 150 food and 100 gold.

      Think about it. This is 100 gold more than the first +1 attack on cavalry and it is 70 food and 20 gold less than the second one. 100 more gold than the first +1/+1 armor, and 100 food and 50 gold less than the second. Aren’t the benefits a bit strong, for the cost? It encompasses a lot of units, too. 3-5, depending on the civilization. Yes, it is a Feudal Age upgrade, and thus should be cheap and quick to research, but does that not also mean it should be weak?

      • LukeMam

        I definitely agree that Bloodlines is way too strong.

        Other technologies I think that are too strong are: the halberdier upgrade, redemption, bombard tower upgrade, and crop rotation.

        However, bloodlines top them all. +20 HP affecting FOUR units for only 150 food and 100 gold? Yes please! Any civ without bloodlines are pretty much doomed to having inferior cavalry and cavalry archers, except for Franks (only with regards to heavy cavalry). Having them available in FEUDAL age is pretty much the icing on the cake.

        I think Bloodlines should be nerfed using one these methods:
        1) Make bloodlines a castle age tech, still available in stables. However, increase the price to match the price of thumb ring. Increase it to 300 food and 200 gold, and increase the research duration two fold.
        2) Make bloodlines an imperial age (yes, imperial age) tech that’s available only in university. If you look through the researches throughout the ages, they get stronger and stronger. Right now the only exception is bloodlines vs husbandry, where bloodlines is no doubt way more useful than husbandry.
        3) Like what Blanket PI said, reduce the benefit of bloodlines from +20 to +10. However, I’m not a big fan of this because it makes certain paladin-based and cavalry-archer based civs lose their punch, and worse, the Persian +2 archer bonus becomes useless (because it takes 5 hits rather than 6 for a paladin to kill an 80 HP cavalry archer, but not for a 70 HP cavalry archer)

        I’d say, go with #1. Also gives a massive boost in Frankish knight rush because they don’t have to spend all that time researching bloodlines.

        As for the other powerful techs:
        1) Redemption should cost both gold AND food. 475 gold and 300 food. Like bloodlines, any civ without redemption are automatically doomed to “inferior monk civ”.
        2) Halberdier upgrade – hmmm… not sure how to fix it. For one thing, halberdiers are MUCH better than pikemen. Yes 600 gold is a lot, but you gain +10 bonus with cavalry, +2 attack, and +5 HP. It’s as expensive as the hussar upgrade, which ONLY gives you +15 HP. It’s the existence of halbs that cause Vikings and Aztecs to be fed to paladins in late imperial despite their bonus on their pikemen. I say, decrease the cavalry bonus of halbs from +32 to +27, or increase the cavalry bonus of pikemen from +22 to +27
        3) Bombard tower upgrade – they should have kept the upgrade costing stone instead of food. 800 stone and 400 wood was fine. Not only does it make bombard towers more difficult to research, but also, the Turks get more of an advantage in the BT department (since it costs 400 stone).
        4) Crop rotation – only a few civs get them, HOWEVER, 550 food per farm is like 50% more than 375 food per farm. The amount of wood you save is ridiculous. Just for comparison, two handed saw is only a 10% increase. Definitely increase the price of crop rotation, from 250 food and 250 wood to 400 of each. Also the Franks will now be known as the civ with “free crop rotation”.

        • BlanketPI

          It appears that I disagree, which is strange, as initially I started out thinking your proposals were mostly a good idea.

          Bloodlines: I never knew that Paladins were for countering Heavy Cavalry Archers? I always though cavalry archers were to hit-and-run against units, as they are sure to lose against knights, otherwise. I thought the main benefit is to kill the foot archers and the slower mounted archer, the war wagon.

          Of course, your argument still has its merits, but I was thinking of how huge a bonus Bloodlines is for such an across the board thing. Even with an increased price and whatnot, well… you know what happens when you compare Aztec Elite Eagle Warriors (which even get their own bonus!) to Mayan ones…. Still, an increased price and being in the Castle Age could be right…. I guess I just personally prefer the +10 option and my own bias is here.

          Redemption: I do not think it is broken, just because, even if the Monk is a ruling unit, the technology will not help against other Monks. It might be right, as it is, but I cannot say for certain. It really has two purposes, converting onagers and scorpions. Rams and Trebuchets are normally too dangerous to let your Monk leave for, while buildings take 15 seconds to convert. Bombard Cannons can fire before the Monk starts and then run away before firing again. (Or just getting a cohort to kill the Monk) Sure, it is strong, but do you know what else is strong in a similar sense? Atonement (325 gold)

          Halberdier: First of all, the Hussar upgrade has two things that allow it to be an extreme counter to Monks: faster attack speed and 2 more attack against Monks (so +12 bonus) which means that with Blast Furnace, a Hussar will take 2 strikes (roughly 2 seconds) to kill a Sanctified Monk, while a Light Cavalry will take 3 strikes. (roughly 4.1 seconds or something) Thus Hussars both become a much better counter and they get +15 HP, instead of just +5.
          Secondly, the Halberdier is designed, basically to just exceed the Heavy Camel in power. Sure, the upgrade is strong, but the upgrade to Pikeman is not so weak, either. The Vikings and Aztecs are left without a good counter to Paladins, so maybe increase the Pikeman’s attack bonus, slightly…. Anything more sounds dangerous. For a ratio, the Pikeman is increased in attack bonus from +15 to +22. (+7) That is roughly a 46.7% increase. Then you get the Halberdier, which is +22 to +32, (+10) which is about a 45.5% increase. Sure, it adds 2 attack, instead of 1, but that still means +8 versus +12. That is not much of a difference, is it? (Sure, it means the world against heavy cavalry, but…) If anything, try to get the Vikings and Aztecs Halberdiers. (Pikemen still beat Hussars with Bloodlines, so there is less of an issue in trash wars)

          Bombard Towers: They changed it to food for a reason. No one wants to waste 800 stone (or even 400 stone) on the ability to create a structure which dies quickly to rams and cannot produce units, very much unlike Castles. The Turks would not get much of a bonus, anyway, since Artillery costs a whopping 450 stone. (850 stone for more, but they still need to actually build their Bombard Towers) As it is, I rarely see games with non-Koreans researching Bombard Tower before the middle Imperial Age. It is already quite expensive for everyone but the Turks and the Koreans and they take forever to get built.

          Crop Rotation: It sounds good in theory, but let me look at the other two upgrades. Horse Collar gives +75 to 175 food farms. That is a 3/7 increase. Heavy Plow, aside from increasing farmer productivity slightly (Villagers hold +1 food) gives +125 to 250 food farms. That is 1/2. Crop Rotation gives +175 food to 375 food farms. That is 7/15. They are all very similar ratios, are they not? Moreover, I think that wood is used outside of Farms is enough that the 58.4% increase in speed is almost as good as the approximately 214% increase in food on a Farm. I think the Franks would be good enough if Bloodlines were to be nerfed a bit, so that that bonus part would not be necessary.

          • LukeMam

            Hmmm… good point.

            I agree with most of what you said. Redemption, I kind of agree with you that it’s fine the way it is. However, what I don’t like about the tech is that if you’re a civ without redemption, then you’re automatically an inferior monk civ because the tech is so important in castle age monk rushes, and 99% of times you use monks to a) counter Persian war elepants, or b) doing castle age monk rushes.

            I agree with crop rotations too, but you have to agree that farm techs are probably a lot more important than the other techs because of the 50% more resource that you get through each research. I just find that for such an important tech, it gives civs with crop rotation a major advantage over civs without crop rotation, wood-wise. I’d rather be a civ that misses two-handed saw than crop rotation if everything else is equal.

            As for bombard towers, ok maybe it’s weak to rams, but thank god it is because bombard tower is almost always the most preferred structure to build. Even Teutonic players would admit that their bracer-less, architecture-less bombard towers are more valuable than the 13 range castles. Nobody build keeps. There should be more reasons to build keeps over BT’s or castle’s over BT’s and this way, By changing the food cost to stone cost, you’ll see more players wanting to build guard towers and upgrade them to keeps because 800 stone is too much. Or maybe build a castle instead.

            As for the halb upgrade, I just want the Aztecs and Vikings to be able to counter paladins as well as other civs. Maybe the solution isn’t to nerf halbs or to improve pikemen. I’m guessing… give the Aztec or Viking pikemen greater bonuses? Like Garland wars giving +6 attack to pikemen but +4 attack to champs, and Viking pikemen get 25% more HP as opposed to 20%? And as for your hussar upgrade argument, that +2 bonus vs monks is really a moot point unless you’re facing an Aztec player with godly micro skills or if you’re Persian massing EWE’s (and in that case, your HC or heavy scorpions can do a fine job against those monks, as well as countering halbs).

            I stand by my argument on how to balance Bloodlines. It should definitely not be a feudal age tech for the reasons you mentioned, and I think they should keep the +20 HP bonus, but with greater cost and greater research speed.

            Now I should talk about what techs Cysion need to improve. Hmmm…

            Tracking – I’m not sure TBH. The LoS should be increased I guess.

            Masonry and architecture – should also give boosts to siege equipment. Both should add 2 pierce armour and 10% more HP to siege units, and they should be cumulative. This way, not only would they be more researched, but also, civs that lack architecture such as Celts and Mongols would have their siege units much more balanced compared to other civs (like the bloodlines effect but not as nerf-y).

            Treadmill crane – should cost 200 food and 100 wood instead and should be moved from university to town centre. 20% faster building is important, but right now the biggest complaint is that Treadmill Crane is too expensive and requires a university, hence it’s simply not worth it.

            Heated shot – should not only allow castle fire to affect ships, but siege as well.

            Also, I think certain civs need to lose units and technologies. So far every civ have Faith, Murder holes, and trebuchets. It’ll spice up the game variety more.

            -Faith should definitely be removed from the Persians tech tree. Makes their elephants easier to counter. Other civs should lose faith as well… not sure which.
            -These following civs should not get trebuchets: Teutons, Mongols, Celts, Turks, Saracens, and Spanish. Makes certain civs with poor siege workshop units more competitive over civs with good siege workshop units but (now) with no trebs. Makes Turks, Spanish, Saracens, and Teutons more bombard cannon reliant (or ram reliant if they’re facing 13-range BT’s/keeps/castles), and makes Celts and Mongols more reliant with their super powerful siege rams. And Teutons have siege onagers that Franks don’t have (along with other strong advantages; I still think Franks are a bit outclassed by the Teutons), now Franks need something that the Teutons don’t have.
            -Murder holes – offensively based civs like Mongols, Celts, Goths, Persians, and Japanese should not get murder holes.

          • GntlMn

            Franks do have siege engineers. :)
            And you can not remove trebuchets, since they are the essence of the imperial siege. You can’t replace them with ANYTHING else, because of the superior range. You may have an excellent Teutonic siege tech tree, but without trebus, you can not do anything against other civs trebus AT ALL. (No, you won’t have enough time to micromanage units near the enemy’s combat-secured trebuchets.) Trebu is also a defensive siege engine, not only offensive.
            On the other hand you certainly have good ideas, i like some of them.

          • GntlMn

            Ok, i was st*pid. You wrote siege onagers, not siege engineers. xD

          • BlanketPI

            I do not think stupid needs to be censored. I just wanted to let you know.

            I guess that, yet again, I disagree. I think I will stop after this, as it does not concern me much and I am a poor player, anyway, so what I do not know….

            Redemption: True, you cannot do a Monk rush against a civilization with Redemption unless you, too have Redemption, which is a problem…. There are defensive strategies, but those are not offensive strategies. Then again, only on Arena or with a fast Castle Age as the Aztecs can you really do an effective Monk rush, without support. I do not like leaving someone on the defensive…. I think the appropriate solution is to either make it take longer to convert siege (like Light Cavalry) or to make it cost more, preferably gold. For the latter, I would say, make it 675 gold and see how it works, then adjust it as needed.

            Crop Rotation: Well it is better than Two-Man Saw if you use a food and gold army, but most Imperial Age armies use lots of siege, buildings and possibly some skirmishers and pikemen. There is a reason you normally do not research Horse Collar until well into the Feudal Age, while you research Double-Bit Axe right away! I think even Two-Man Saw is researched before Crop Rotation, normally. Still, it is strong…. It is certainly something to think about, considering there will normally be 60-80+ Farms after booming.

            Bombard Tower: Well, I think that is a problem with the Bombard Tower, not the research. Keeps are generally considered useless outside of special circumstances, from what I can gather. The big draw to the Castle is that it not only has a whole lot more HP, but it also has the ability to make units. It is about 1/3 of the strength of Bombard Towers in attack, yet it fires much more frequently. I think that using Bombard Towers over Castles all the time is just because you think of Bombard Towers as being “super” towers and that they cost less stone. Still, perhaps you could tack on some stone to the cost…. I guess that, too would need to be tested.

            Halberdier: Hmm… that sounds like it could work…. Something like, “+2 attack Pikeman, Imperial Age” and “+10% HP Pikeman, Imperial Age”. I think the Vikings need them even stronger if they need them boosted at all. The Aztecs still have a counter for Paladins, though: Monks. (Heresy and Faith are rarely researched, but in the event that they are, the +2 attack for Pikemen might be just what is needed.)

            Hussar: 21 damage versus 23, is the difference between 3 strikes and 2 against Sanctified Monks. Monks have a 1/6 chance of converting Light Cavalry (1/12 with Faith) each second, but the actual conversion cannot happen until 4 seconds in to it. In 4 seconds, there is slightly more than a 50% chance of a successful conversion. (30% with Faith) Still, I suppose that if you have gold to spare, then Hussars are not the optimal choice…. Then again, why research it if you have gold coming out of your ears?

            Bloodlines: Then we will just have to agree to disagree. Either way will certainly help the problem to some extent, though I think your method is more focused on making the Franks stronger….

            Tracking: Well… I do not think +4 would be enough to get people to research it earlier. They normally do it for Spearmen when their Barracks is idle or for later game infantry, regardless, so I think it is fine.

            Masonry and Architecture: Siege was supposed to be very fragile, so no to that idea, in my opinion. I have seen both researched when you have spare resources and are not researching something like Ballistics, Chemistry or Bombard Tower in the University. Combined and compared to Hoardings for Castles only, they give +8 HP, +2/+2 armor and +6 building armor, for the extra cost of 50 food, but 25 wood less. I think they are fine as is. (I see Masonry researched frequently, anyway and once the later Imperial Age comes into play, then Architecture, too.)

            Treadmill Crane: True, the University part is a big problem, but if you are building Castles or Bombard Towers, I think it pays off handsomely. I think the price is fine. The problem with it being in the Town Center is that you have time devoted to not making Villagers nor are you improving you economy much. (Even with the price drop, it will take over 250 Farms to pay for the food, alone!)

            Heated Shot: So siege dies even faster? The technology is quite useful on maps like Islands and even some others like Continental and Salt Marsh, where 125% more power makes the Guard Tower and Keep upgrades quite useful. Bombard Towers would kill rams fairly quickly, making Trebuchets and Bombard Cannons necessary for those again. (Siege Rams would take 75 damage a shot, which, while better, is not so by a whole lot. (4 shots instead of 3) With Murder Holes, that ram will lose to the Bombard Tower, just like before.) Siege does not need to be effected for Castles, since it only helps against that which it kills quickly, anyway…. (Aside from the Bombard Cannon, which would only be effected by Teutonic Castles…) If you Masonry and Architecture idea were to be in play, then increase the price of this and instate your idea here it might work out, but if not….

            Faith and Murder Holes: These are almost entirely unused, even in post-Imperial Age brawls. Persian Elite War Elephants do not need an even more extreme counter than they already get, I think. Not to mention, it still costs a whopping 750 food and 1000 gold! It better be worth it, do you not think so? I believe out of all the non-unique unit upgrades, this is the fourth most expensive, (5th if you could Imperial Age) only to Siege Onager, Paladin and Heavy Scorpion. Murder Holes is the only non-unique technology to cost stone, and I guess people prefer the extra Town Center, Bombard Tower or ability to repair their Castles.

            Trebuchets: Trebuchets are better for Castles and maybe Town Centers, but rams are still incredibly useful! They are mobile, which is the draw of the Bombard Cannon, and they are cheap in gold, which is generally scare after a while. With some units inside, they are speedy, too, which can let you get to your enemy’s (cavalry) archers with your infantry or archers, quickly. Sure, in large team games, gold is no longer very scarce, but there, some other units drop out, too, like the Elite Skirmisher. (use even Mangonels instead, normally)

          • BlanketPI

            Something just occurred to me for your Persian advantage thing. Perhaps Cavalry Archers, Heavy Cavalry Archers, Mangudai and Elite Mangudai could get +10 HP with no technology at all. The underused unit gets a boost for civilizations without Bloodlines, the civilizations with Bloodlines are no worse off with them than they once were and Bloodlines being cut down to +10 HP would not hurt the Persian knight bonus against archers.

            I know, this is persistent of me, but I really do not like the Saracen Knight being better than the Korean Cavalier, among other things. Even if you jack up the price and research time, it merely delays the research, not halts it.

            Of course, Cysion would actually have to like the idea and it would have to be tested to work. Still, it is a possibility.

            (Sorry about bring up something “old”.)

      • Age2player

        Point taken.

  • LukeMam

    Cysion, can you please add me in? My email address is eanmackenzie_nator@hotmail.com


  • LukeMam

    First off Cysion, thanks you so much for this! AoC is still a popular game even today despite being 10 years old and it’s good to see that somebody’s still putting a lot of effort into this. I’m looking forward to this. Hopefully, when my exams end in December, I can check out all the new features.

    However, after playing and testing AoC for so many years, I have a few suggestions on the newer technologies and civilizations. I know that AoC is perhaps the most balanced RTS game there is out there, but I do feel that adding a bit more techs would spice up the game a bit, provided that they don’t unbalance a civilization.

    For instance:

    Franks – Probably the civ that really needs a new tech the most in order to be more competitive. 192 HP is only 12 HP more than other civ’s FU paladins. Maybe give it a tech that will increase cavalry pierce armour by 3. That way, paladins will have a pierce armour of 10. They’re still vulnerable to halbs and camels, but they can take on archers and cavalry archers a lot better than the other paladin civs.

    If that makes the paladins too powerful, then probably give them a tech that will boost their siege. Their siege right now is simply “above average” rather than excellent. Make their heavy scorpions cheaper by ~ 15%.

    Goths – Right now they’re pretty much overcentralized on infantry. Of course, 35% cheaper infantry that’s produced out of barracks 70% faster is nothing to laugh at, but it will be if the opponent has a mass of gunpowder/heavy scorpions or teutonic knights ready to defend against your champ flood. Give them a tech that will benefit another unit, like hand cannoneers. Make the tech such that it gives the hand cannoneers +1 or +2 range, which is very important to defend yourself against elite teutonic knights.

    Chinese – Probably another civ that will benefit a lot from a new technology. Right now they have significant problems against siege onagers. It would help for them to receive a tech to protect them against siege better. You mentioned Great Wall of China – sounds like a great tech. Hmmm… maybe have the tech increase their wall HP by 50%? It goes well with their defensive nature.

    Vikings – I don’t know if you’re allowed to change bonuses, but right now their 20% cheaper ship bonus is too powerful and overcentralizing, and I feel that 15% cheaper is more appropriate. As for a new technology, make them more competitive in late imperial (just a bit more competitive, rather than making them as powerful as the Celts since they already have a good niche in early imperial). Give them a tech that will increase their infantry armour by +2. They can fight paladins better and can defend in a gap better. I say +2 because that gives their elite berserks a physical armour of +7, which not only makes them more worth using, but also, a paladin would need 7 strikes instead of 6 to kill one.

    Aztecs – like Vikings, their late imperial need to be slightly improved to be more competitive. But just a slight increase. The main problem with Aztecs is that their Jaguar warriors are way too specific of a unit. Give them a new tech like Anarchy – the tech will allow them to produce jaguar warriors from barracks, thus giving them more usage. Not only would you be better at defending against champ rushes, but also, you no longer need to build all those 4800 castles which proves to be the worst use of your stone.

    Huns – They’re powerful enough, but their UU seriously need to be improved. Give them a tech that will make their Tarkans move 10-15% faster. Now their Tarkans have a main use over paladins – they can now ZOOM into your opponents economy centre, destroy everything in site, and ZOOM out less scathed than if you were to do it with a paladin. It’s only a speed bonus, because they are powerful enough already, and it helps them only in raiding.

    Saracen – This one may need a new tech to be more competitive. Right now they’re slow, but once in imperial, they’re still not as good as compared to Koreans or Turks. Give them a tech that will boost their siege. Make their siege onagers do +15 more damage. And after that, whereas the Koreans have EWW with SO with +2 range, Turks have EJans with 100 HP BC, now you have Saracens with EMams and siege onagers that can literally destroy everything in sight.

    Turks – Everything’s good already, but wouldn’t it be a good idea to make them fare better in trash wars? So far Hussar’s all they got… so why not give them a tech that make their hussars stronger? Make the Turkish hussars attack 20% faster through the bonus.

    Britons – Like Goths, except with just strong archers instead of strong infantry. Give them a tech that will benefit another unit, like infantry or siege. Preferably siege, since Britons are really deficient in siege. They have FU trebs, so why not give them a treb bonus. I know – 25% cheaper trebuchets! Watch out opponents, the Britons just invaded your town with a mass of longbowmen and… trebuchets!

    I couldn’t think of a good new tech to give to the other civs – Celts, Teutons, Spanish, Mayans, Byzantine, Persians, Koreans, Mongols, and Japanese, because they seem like they don’t really need anything to improve. I’m not sure what Byzantine Iconism should be – maybe a tech to improve their economy?

    As for the new civs, Italians with Genoese crossbowmen sound like a great idea. So far we have different UU archers occupying different niches (plumed archer with higher pierce armour, longbowmen with range, CKN with extra shots, mangudai with fast firing, etc). We’ve yet to see a UU archer with high armour. Make the Genoese crossbowmen an expensive, slow moving, slow firing archer with high HP, high armour, and high pierce attack, giving them excellent defensive capabilities against cavalry units. I read somewhere about how Genoese crossbowmen carried large shields with them so it kind of makes sense.

    The stats would be:

    Genoese crossbowmen:
    HP: 60
    Pierce attack: 8
    Armour: 2
    Pierce armour: 2
    Cost: 75 wood, 55 gold

    Elite genoese crossbowmen:
    HP: 100
    Pierce attack: 13
    Armour: 3
    Pierce armour: 2
    Cost: 75 wood, 55 gold
    Upgrade cost: 1200 wood, 800 gold

    As for the 4 other civs, make one a cavalry archer civ (Magyars), one a mesoamerican civ (Inca), one a “trash war” based civ, and one a gunpowder civ.

    Sorry if it seems like I’m trying to decide what you should do, but please read over these and consider them for the expansion that you’re planning on making. Thanks.

    • GntlMn

      Read here the first post. You will meet some of your ideas ;)


      • LukeMam

        Ah true. My bad.

        I guess you can direct that facepalm picture to me, haha.

      • BlanketPI

        Thank you for the link. Some of it looks good and some of it is what I feared. It is not easy to balance a game….

        I will mention that I think the Frankish increase sounds like a bad idea. Trebuchets are supposed to kill any unit they make a direct hit on other than those two siege weapons, the unpacked Trebuchet and the ram family. Bloodlines being just +10 or +15 sounds like a better idea to me. It is a very short and cheap upgrade for what it does, in my opinion. Maybe it is just that, though. Just me.

        I guess I am the type of person who is deathly afraid of change, though. I might be pessimistic about this, but I suspect it is just me and maybe a few other people. You cannot please everyone, now can you? Sorry if this is annoying!
        Keep up the good work!

        • BlanketPI

          Oh hey, look who forgot about the Korean unique units. Forget me, please.

        • GntlMn

          Do not afraid of change. ;) Everything will be tested, i am sure, balance won’t be a problem. And AOC isn’t changing at all! “It is good as it is now.”

    • http://www.cysion.be Cysion

      Thx, some interesting ideas in there ;)

  • GntlMn

    When will we get some new pictures? :D

  • danielpereira

    you should definitely add Portuguese to this expansion ! =D

  • http://www.age4greeks.gr ridergr

    Great news!!!!
    Imagine an AoC mode full playable in win7, with -why not – 5v5, in HD, in a constant world, with addons like teamspeak, teamizer etc
    Its pity that the new players prefer 3d graphics than balanced rts games. If a better graphic environment could apply in the new mode, it will be excellent!
    And, why not, playable through free clients!
    Sorry for my bad English

    • Alexandra

      Hey cysion, it’s me, taichi san from voobly/age of kings heaven.
      Can you add my msn please, it’s alexandra_r@hellokitty.com

      btw aoc is fully playable in windows 7… (tested on 32 bit)
      If the game chrashes when you load it try running age2_x1.exe as Administator and it should definately work.

  • xyzpqr

    It would be good if you add India, since China and Japan are already.

  • Age2player

    As long as they add Incas, I’m not complaining and I’m totally gonna get this expansion pack. (I probably will anyway:))

  • Frederick

    Please strongly consider adding a sub-saharan African civilization, namely the Mali Empire.


    Their founding story would make a superb campaign as well, but that’s something else altogether.

    • PajtinPillej

      The Mali Empire.
      Or rather The Mandingian Empire (Mandingo) sounds more flashy!

      I REALLY like this idea since the only african civ in Aoe 2 right now is Sarcens.
      This way Aoe 2 will be 100% covering every part of the world from this period of time. The only problem is that in imperial age they probably will be overpowered seen to the historical aspects.
      But honestly, it’s a game and those stuff can be fixed. :P

      They probably wouldn’t have knights at all, only scout cavalry-hussars. At the best Knights. Not Cavaliers and Paladins at least.
      As a matter of fact they souldn’t even have much high technologic water warfare units. Galleons and such.
      They probably wouldn’t have much siege power. But their infantry and archery could be a bit above the other civs.
      Maybe they could have a unique unit except from their unique Castle units.
      Much like The Eagle Warrior to Mayans and Aztecs. Maybe an anti-siege warrior to compensate their lack of better seige weapons.

      I’m not a fan of african history nor am I african. I just feel a new, diffrent, unique type of civ would be fun.
      I mean its great that all these new civs have come but isn’t Indians a lot like Persians. And Incas a lot like Aztecs and Mayans. And so on.
      The only similarity Mali Empire would have with Sarcens is Camels.
      Since Bowmen with poisoned and flaming arrows (accordingly to Wikipedia) were their most common warfare i think they should be concentrated on ranged attacks.
      Like a heavy armored archer unit with anti-siege qualities, average costs, ~70 hp(non elite), slow fire rate, high damage, and bonus on siege units from the Castles.
      And a Light armored anti-cavalry, Javelin/Spear throwers, fast, low hp, medium cheap unit with a Poisonous Arrow upgrade that gives extra attack power and non-minimum range (since they always had a knife tied to their arm in case of need) at the Archery. Like the Eagle Warrior but weaker and with ranged attacks.
      And to compensate for lacking Galleons they should have a unique ship much like Vikings Longboat and Koreans Turtle Ships but this ship would be an expensive extreme version of the fast fire boat or something like that. Maybe a Ram but on water.
      Just to balance it all.

      I’ve seen some of these requests before and i think creating this Civ would definently “kill all the birds with one stone”.
      Im not a good player nor am I a game maker. But i think this idea would be really intresting!
      If this civ won’t be made within the Expansion it could at least be done within a Patch a few months later. right?
      Please read my request and think about it, cuz i know this civ would be really fun to try out.

      P.S. And while we waiting for the patch with Mali Empire and bugg fixing stuff Cysion could add those Portugesians as well since so many talks about them. And to be honest. It would be fun with a diffrent type of Spanish-style civ as well :)


  • Richard

    Maygar Pillaging <= probably you have mistyped this one. :$

  • Richard

    The building set is very nice for the Lombards. :) I also like that you put a new wallpaper for them at the bottom of the window.

  • http://N/A Thomas

    looks real cool! the workshop reminds me of the roman Workshop in rise of rome, im expecting to see nice fortified walls too ;)
    just a note, Italy as a country has existed since the american civil war, But it was city-states before then. so i guess this is the city-state?

    • GntlMn

      It is true more or less, but Lombardy was (still it is) an existing historical and cultural unit in the peninsula. In the Middle Ages – especially in the 12-13th century – these cities formed leagues to collaborate against the Hohenstaufen emperors. We don’t have to stick to only one of them.

  • Polemarch

    Wow, this looks very promising. I will be following it eagerly!

    The new texture set looks fantastic, very professional.
    High-res gameplay would be particularly good if well implemented.

  • barbarossa89

    Hmmmm, there are five buildings sets, and you talk about five new civilizations, but that looks like yet another build set. I was thinking Inca, Italian, Magyar, Berber, and Khmer, but this whets my appetite. Will all the new civilizations be of the new build set? Or is this not set in stone yet?

    It’s kind of a shame that 1.0C was the last time the game was officially touched.

  • GntlMn

    And by the way: if you would like to write new scenarios or expand the history section, i may help you, i am a historian myself ;)

  • GntlMn

    Wow :D
    More info please! Which are the 5 new civs?

    • http://www.cysion.be Cysion

      More information will be revealed later, I consider this page more or less the “official status” of the game. So a lot of civs are very likely to be added but aren’t official like the Italians yet.

      Help on the Historical part is welcome too, but it’s low on the priority list right now, so I’ll keep you up to speed when the time is ripe ^^