Missionary Madness

Overview

Wololo, but… on a donkey! And right from the start!

Settings

  • Game Type: Random Map
  • Map: MegaRandom
  • Players: L_Clan_Alive + L_Clan_Ruso_ vs _DauT_ + L_Clan_Chris
  • Nicks in game: L_Clan_Nand + L_Clan_Ruso_ vs ItsOver9000 + _MoDD_FiRE_
  • Civs: Mongols + Mayans vs Mayans + Mongols

War Story

Usually, the only donkey you see at the start of a game, is the one spinning the millstones in your dark age mill. But since MegaRandom there is a slight possibility that your starting scout isn’t horseback but donkeyback. Alive quickly noticed this and told Ruso to wall. Everyone eventually tried to wall up, but with varying success. Only Alive secured his economy but DauT couldn’t prevent Alive’s missionary to enter and thus suffered from massive losses on his scarce dark age population. A similar story happened a little more down south where Ruso managed to sneak his missionary into Chris’ base. With moderate success though as Chris managed to kill the Spanish donkey after some conversions.

Only two missionaries and one base aren’t mentioned yet, and that’s where the real havoc took place. Two missionaries scourging Ruso’s town and he had no place to run to. Not until Alive sent out some scouts to help him out and generally save the game. Alive kept pushing DauT out of his place and eventually a Serbian relocation took place. Chris and Alive irritated each other a bit but eventually they both managed to boom it out.

The final confrontation between two Mongol hordes was inevitable but there was a problem first. There was barely enough stone available. And hordes of mangudai require castles. Chris decided to go arbalests and cavaliers instead but Alive bought some stone and put down 2 castles. Just enough to get an army of mangudai up and running. Because DauT was hit much harder than Ruso, Chris tried to delay the fight by walling in both Alive and Ruso, but to no avail. The final breakthrough meant the end of the Chris & DauT alliance and they offered their resignation.

Recorded Game

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Video Commentary

Written by Cysion

  • truongzgiang

    Thank u for this

  • Bill

    Thank u for this. Ive dled a bunch of other recorded games from this page, its awesome. Really appricate the work ur putting into this.

    Bill

  • CarlosFerdinand

    Barbarossa, mangudai owns paladins. Paladin doesnt counter mang. And elite skirms, well, adding in an onager or few siege ram makes it extremely hard for skirm to counter mangs well, they do counter, but are are easy to counter back.

    • barbarossa89

      I know you have said this before, but in WCL7, there have been times when paladins were used to counter magudai. If it’s open terrain, and the mangudai aren’t running, the paladins do very nicely. They take only five damage a hit, and thus take 36 hits to kill. In many instances, the mangudai were massed enough to counter the paladins. But in other circumstances, the paladins killed the mangudai, or at least forced them to retreat.

      Another example was elite eagle warriors against mangudai. They were sort of mutual counters at different times.

      Part of the problem is that mangudai have to be made at castles, and thus massing them can be a problem. Paladins and Eagle warriors, made at stables and barracks, were able to be massed to a greater extent faster than the mangudai.

      I am reporting what happened in these games. I have watched all the games from the final round, and am watching the grand finals as they come. If you want to tell Ruso and kkab not to use paladins against mangudai, be my guest. Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn’t. It all depended on the situation.

      After numerous black forest games, I have concluded that Mongols civ rape only the Turks, and that only until the Turks get a bombard tower machine going. Teutons, Franks, Persians, and Celts can do quite fine against Mongols. In some of the WCL7 games, Celts used their halberdiers to kill mangudai. In one game, RVK made use of Persian paladins to push a Mongol, before killing him with elite war elephants. They lost the game, but that was because their Korean died to the enemy Hun.

      In the latest AoCbox game, behind enemy lines, the Spanish counters the Mangudai with paladins. Mangudai win against paladins in some situations, and paladins win in others. It’s not as if they have an attack bonus.

      • http://www.cysion.be Cysion

        Yeah totally true, Barbarossa89. It’s similar to the story of crossbows/CA vs knights. Depending on the numbers, their formation and hit’n-run-micro, either can win.

        Sure, on 2K level, pros will control their mangudai much better, making them win in more situations, but they’re no definite counter like mamelukes vs knights.

        • CarlosFerdinand

          Im talking about open ground only… Once mangudai are massed enough, paladin stand little chance, its nowhere near as hard to beat the paladins with mang as beating knight with xbow. Elite mangs have zero missile delay.

          Maya eew perform better than paladins vs emang.

          On ur statement mongol rape only turk, i disagree.. Massed elite mangs + onager/hussar really leaves a lot of civs struggling. Emangs + onager has so little amount of counters when massed heavy.

          • http://www.cysion.be Cysion

            Well, then you’re just agreeing with what we say. ^^

            Mangudai beat Paladins in certain conditions and vice-versa.

          • CarlosFerdinand

            Well im just saying mangs own paladins in MOST situations. Only time pala wins is really if their numbers are less than 10 v 10 which is a rare thing to see. Whatever pala can make good sturdy shield to help eskirms be used to full potential, so yeah pala has good use as longlasting shield, just that only mang >> only paladin.

            And certainly barbarossa, mongols are really hard for most civs to counter in post imp with good gold. =P

          • barbarossa89

            I would agree that Mongols are one of the stronger late imperial civilizations. I would put them at second tier, behind the top tier of Koreans Turks and Persians. Others on the second tier would be Celts, Saracens, Teutons, and Spanish.

            Mongols have elite mangudai and siege, as well as hussars for certain situations. Mangudai are great when massed, but they need to be able to do a lot of hit and run. Even 40 vs 40, if the Mangudai get driven to a corner with more than four spaces to attack them from, the paladins win. In WCL7 games, the paladins were used against mangudai most effectively when the Mongol was distracted, and his mass of mangudai wasn’t doing any hit and run. Other times were when mangudai were in small raiding groups, and paladins chased them off.

            Mayan elite Eagle warriors take more hits to kill a mangudai than a paladins, and it takes eleven fewer hits of the mangudai to kill them. Therefore, elite eagle warriors were used less than paladins to counter mangudai. A Mayan was much more likely to mass the elite plumed archers in wcl7 games.

            Possibly the biggest weakness of mangudai, demonstrated especially on black forest, is the ability of just a couple of siege onagers to get shots on them when they aren’t being directly controlled. 30-40 of them gone, just like that. Sure, if they had been micrmanaged ALL THE TIME, they would not have died, but one cannot keep an eye on them all the time without losing track of other things.

            I love Mongols, and I use mangudai a lot. But I am fully aware of their weaknesses, and paladins can pose a threat in some circumstances. I am much more worried about war wagons, siege onagers, mamelukes, and huskarls, though.

  • http://www.cysion.be Cysion

    Also, thanks to __Rage__ for finding this game!

  • Skanderbeg

    i hate the missionary start. but hats off to alive performance! in the other games alive and ruso were raped 11

  • barbarossa89

    Fascinating game. It reminds me of a megarandom played in the WCL7 group stage, where they also started with missionaries with enclosed easily walled spaces.

    Mangudai are so fascinating. In the WCL7 game, I have seen them used to counter paladins, paladins used to counter mangudai, mangudai used to counter onagers, onagers used to counter mangudai, mangudai used to counter halberdiers, halberdiers used to counter mangudai, and many other examples. Mangudai only work well when micromanaged, but they have few good counters when managed properly.

    It surprises me how few people make elite skirmishers against them.